(2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 815
Joined: 2005
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/9/2023 12:46:59 AM
While this has been an ongoing process since we cancelled the French submarine contract, it's being announced that we are going to purchase 5 Virginia class subs for the RAN from the USA.

This will enable Australia to operate Nuclear subs while we invest in a brand new class of Nuclear submarine in conjunction with the UK in 2040-ish.

This will also certainly change the dynamics of regional politics as this will be seen as an aggressive move in Australian offensive/defensive capability.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8320
Joined: 2006
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/13/2023 9:39:06 AM
The US is glad to help out our Allies from Oz!!
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13554
Joined: 2009
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/13/2023 12:47:21 PM
There have been a couple of times in the past four decades that Canada has mused about equipping the RCN with nuclear submarines. Today, we have a four boat fleet of diesel-electric subs purchase used from Britain. They are incapable of patrolling the Arctic under the ice and seem to have spent more time in the repair shop than at sea.

Canada cancelled its plan to purchase or build 10 nuclear subs in 1989. Periodically the suggestion that we do so arises.

The US strenuously opposed the acquisition of nuclear submarines by the RCN and yet now it supports the sale of the technology to Australia. Why?

The US would rather see Canada increase its NORAD commitment and to improve its surveillance capabilities in the north. Once again, the US would like to see Canada install ballistic missile systems but no nuclear submarines. But at this time we have no capability to respond effectively to violations of our sovereignty.

While the US has rightly asked Canada to increase expenditures on defence, it is opposed to nuclear submarines. Why? Apparently, there is concern that RCN nuclear subs would interfere with USN operations. That means in the Arctic where the US insists that the waters in Canada's Arctic archipelago are international waters. Canada insists that they are domestic waters wending their way between all of the islands of the archipelago.

The US does not wish to acknowledge that the Northwest Passage is in Canadian waters. Rather it wants full and free access to the passage. Canadian nuclear submarines would enforce Canadian sovereignty in its own waters.

Canada feels, (or rather felt as the push for nuclear subs is now a weak nudge), that nuclear submarines would be a deterrent to Russian interference in Canadian Arctic waters.

While I am at it, the UK, Australia and the US have signed the AUKUS pact. And with that Australia dumped the nuclear sub deal that it had with France and will now buy US technology.

I suppose that Australia presents no threat to US hegemony in North America. I submit that neither does Canada but if we wish to defend our own territory then nuclear subs for the Arctic seem to be a necessary procurement.

Perhaps my point is moot as there seems to be a diminished desire on the part of this government and previous ones to adequately equip any of the branches of the military.



Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6511
Joined: 2004
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/14/2023 1:28:10 AM
So it’s CANZUK one day, AUKUS the next.

Rapprochement with France and a renewed Entente Cordiale .

Shared values, commitment to Democracy.

Let China beware.

Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation rescues SVB U.K.

Courage, on les aura !

Regards, Phil
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Astoria NY USA
Posts: 16
Joined: 2022
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/18/2023 12:37:25 PM
As I understand it, the US is under negotiations with the Philippines for the use of Subic Bay as a naval base. I guess they still have all the installations from when it closed in 1992. All this to prevent further expansion of China in the area. Any thoughts?
I’m old enough to remember SEATO(1954-1972) the Pacific version of NATO. I’m wondering if that might be in the process of starting up again. I could see Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Korea, and India as potential members. I also think that Taiwan might want in also, but I think that China might consider that as provocative.
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1529
Joined: 2005
Australia to get Nuclear Submarines
3/18/2023 1:00:13 PM
As I understand it, the US is under negotiations with the Philippines for the use of Subic Bay as a naval base. I guess they still have all the installations from when it closed in 1992. All this to prevent further expansion of China in the area. Any thoughts?

Talks are underway while; "On Feb. 2, the longtime allies announced that rotating batches of American forces would be granted access to four more Philippine military camps aside from five other local bases, where U.S.-funded constructions have picked up pace to build barracks, warehouses and other buildings to accommodate a yet-unspecified but expectedly considerable number of visiting troops under a 2014 defense pact."

In addition to this; the former Hanjin shipyard in Subic has been allocated to an American entity Cerberus Management Capital. There were at least two Chinese companies in the bid for the shipyard, along with up to eight total bidders, but the US firm mentioned won out and assumed operations in February of 2023. The Philippine Navy is already ramping up construction for Philippine naval offices, warehouses, stores, etc. Economically beneficial foe the Subic region, the Philippines Island nation and Subic Bay remain a highly strategic base location.

"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford

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