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vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/23/2022 5:42:49 PM
I watched this video and I saw fear in some of the respondents eyes, maybe my western eyes blinded by my own media and government made me see that I dunno, but I did see fear and I did see bravery I know that. So from my perspective after the American Revolution, the French Revolution and an all of the philosophers of enlightenment be them French, American and even going back to to Greek democracy its very sad to this day citizens even in Russia, Russians still fear their government. I dont think we are advanced as we think we are, I think we are the same vicious species that we always have been since the first Neanderthal took a rock and killed his neighbor because he liked his valley. Now our populations are so big humans can just give a shoulder shrug when asked about murder and mayhem going on with a similar race and people just a few miles away (Ukraine) because Putin is sad about this dissolution of a corrupt decrepit empire that flopped on its fat belly.



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Just a thought I had when watching these videos and couldn't help but thinking the civilian masses are sheep being herded throughout history to think a certain way hate a certain people country or political class by bomb thrower sociopaths that lead a Nation or Empire to its peril the peacemakers are few throughout history.


vpatrick
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nuts
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/25/2022 8:33:09 PM
VP, before I go any further I’d like to point out that there are some heroes who literally “did nothing” to save the world. [Read More]

I’ve had a bit of trouble viewing the two videos you linked to. For some time, the translation was obscured. But I agree at least to some extent in your assessment concerning fear in some of those approached by the cameras.

I’ll be honest. I wouldn’t have answered similar questions accurately either. I might do so were they asked in Canada – though should I do that I might expect a visit from CSIS or the RCMP – but not if I were asked them by US media or authorities while I was visiting.

I was particularly struck by your sense that as humans we “can just give a shoulder shrug when asked about murder and mayhem going on with a similar race and people just a few miles away (Ukraine).” That’s not new to our crowded planet. May I share the words of PM Neville Chamberlain on 27 September 1938, explaining to the British nation (and the world over shortwave) his views on the Sudeten crisis. These are his words:

“How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war.

I can well understand the reasons why the Czech Government have felt unable to accept the terms which have been put before them in the German memorandum. Yet I believe after my talks with Herr Hitler that, if only time were allowed, it ought to be possible for the arrangements for transferring the territory that the Czech Government has agreed to give to Germany to be settled by agreement under conditions which would assure fair treatment to the population concerned.

You know already that I have done all that one man can do to compose this quarrel. After my visits to Germany I have realised vividly how Herr Hitler feels that he must champion other Germans, and his indignation that grievances have not been met before this. He told me privately, and last night he repeated publicly, that after this Sudeten German question is settled, that is the end of Germany’s territorial claims in Europe.”


In my books, Chamberlain sold out. Even before he returned to Munich to bow down to Hitler and Mussolini. Or, at kindest, he asked the Czechs to give away part of their country and heritage for the comfort of others. Which 23% of the US would you happily cede to Canada on the words of Boris Johnson, in order to maintain the current nature of the Commonwealth?

My current tailor is Latvian by birth. Russian Latvian by birth who moved to Victoria in the early 1990s. She’s a tough old bird, not trusting any government to do anything to support anything but itself. Nevertheless, she’s proud to be Russian. But I have friends giving me names of new tailors. Because she is Russian; because she should be sanctioned. Crap. She’s my tailor, not my political advisor. I’d be more prone to dump a tailor because she doesn’t wear a face mask than because she was born Russian.

Cheers,
Brian G



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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1187
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/25/2022 10:57:48 PM
Thank you for those videos. It's great to see everyday people (albeit mostly young) give their opinions.
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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/26/2022 8:09:18 PM
Brian W, I agree. I had meant to talk about that, but my own momentum took me past that.

I’m not sure we know if these polls were random, or staged; we don’t know whether we’re viewing a random sampling or carefully chosen responses;. I, at least, don’t know who conducted these polls, where they were conducted, who may have commissioned them, how the results may be used. So in truth I have no idea of what this sampling is supposed to tell us.

Honestly, I tend to ignore those with only “nyet” or “da” as an answer. But the longer comments were, IMHO, largely thoughtful and well-considered from all age groups. I’m not certain I would expect such considerate commentary from a random group of Canadians, to be honest.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1187
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/27/2022 10:27:17 PM
Brian, I'm pretty certain they weren't staged. The interviewer is just talking to people on the street. You're overthinking it.
The sampling tells me that Putin's propaganda machine is effective. As we see with his approval rating. It's pretty sad.

I'm glad VP sent the links.
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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/27/2022 11:29:01 PM
So am I. Thanks, VP.
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 11:12:44 AM
I think everything we read or watch in the media should be received with some amount of skepticism all we can do is view them and come to our own conclusions based on balancing all of the information. I probably dont need to say this because sadly we all do this now anyway since there is so much misinformation in our available media sources and the media's goals seem more concerned with trying to influence rather than inform. I do think some to tend to value information we want to hear higher or more credible than news we dont want to hear based on biases, I have been guilty of this for one. One thing I do know though is Russia invaded a neighbor needlessly and ruined peaceful civilians lives and caused so much unnecessary pain on old folks children and women. There was no Ukrainian missile aimed at Russia there were no weapons of mass destruction meant for Russia, just a country that Russia wanted to Belorussialyze and when Russian troops were not meant with flowers the Russians started shooting at the folks they thought were going to give them flowers. All I need to know.

I have been utterly stopped and shocked in my shoes since the Feb 24th invasion of Ukraine I cant figure out how, why and who it will ultimately benefit and I am horrified beyond what a written word can convey about the humanitarian cost of this needless invasion that is mired in ignorance and evil, so I just throw a few IFAK med kits and compression bandages towards Kaii, scour the internet in search of some answer and post a few videos I thought were meaningful on MHO as to why this is happening. Not all sources and not all answers are legit and I realize this but I definitely delight in watching a Russian tank explode especially after watching what happened in Bucha. Not much more I can do. [Read More]

Anyway more videos,

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Thanks both Brians

vpatrick
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nuts
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 9:49:53 PM
VP, I’ve only watched the first of your 4 links, so I’m responding only that far. I agree with you, in that I think we all have to find our own way through this horror story. You appear to be intent on absorbing information from various sources; that is probably as good as any. I’ve chosen a different path: focusing on certain sites I’ve come to trust (e.g., ISW’s daily briefs); receiving reports from friends I trust implicitly (from sources ranging from Al Jazeera to threads from retired senior officers in Canada’s forces) and leaving the more popular websites to get on with their rather one-sided messaging.

I don’t like what Russia is inflicting on either the political structure, the military forces or the civilian population of Ukraine. I am supporting Ukraine to the best I’m able, as are most of my friends and family.

At the same time, I have spent a lot of time reading about WW2, and much of what is happening in Ukraine is essentially akin to what occurred in Poland, Norway, France and the lowlands, or even Spain during the SCW. It reeks of what happened in Sino-Japanese conflicts of the mid-1930s. I don’’t like it, but I think we have to remember what war is all about, and what it entails. Basically, it entails killing, stealing and bullying. The aim is to take control of space. Russia seems to have got the killing, stealing and bullying down pat. For a supposed world military power, they’ve not done very well in gaining “control of space”. But I think we’d be foolish to assume Ukraine will win this, or to think Russia can’t adapt to a different form of aggression.

At the risk of being considered naive, Russia’s ATGs were developed to defeat the Germans, and they worked for that purpose. They are finding they are much more vulnerable than thought, given the flexibility and power of hand-held tank busters or the increasing success of defensive missile deployment.

The link you offered that I looked at was pretty emotional, I admit. I was moved by the humanity of the speaker, and support his emotions to the full. But his butt isn’t in mortal combat (ever think about that phrase means?). Nor is mine. Nor is your’s. Nor – directly, at least – is Putin’s.

There is a strong emotional dimension to war. That’s why propaganda, well executed, has such power. I might argue, however, that beyond the emotion of the moment (short-term propaganda) there are deeper emotional commitments which can not just be used to justify a war but might also become so true that war is the answer. Europe and the west has expressed some concern that Putin’s foray into Ukraine, if too readily successful, will lead to attempts to take Moldova and/or Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. I think they are real concerns, based largely on Soviet holdings post-WW2.

Turn the fear/concern around, and you have Russia concerned about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and/or the EU. NATO in particular moves an anti-Soviet (yes, I mean Soviet) Bloc closer to Mother Russia’s borders. If that happens, in Russian thinking, what other moves might be made to bring the NATO threat nearer. I don’t for a moment believe that is NATO’s intent. But I can understand Russia’s concern.

I may be full of it. And maybe my comments mark me, at least with some MHOers, as too supportive of Russian actions. But I think unless we consider the realities of what all sides feel are vital in this current extension of a 7 year war, we’ll continue to demonize rather than search for solutions.

VP, please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions. I’m going a different way than you, but I enjoy hearing your reasoning.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 10:52:56 PM
Brian G.

I hear you but sometimes you just have to pick a side this one is easy.


vpatrick
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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
5/1/2022 6:00:24 PM
Quote:
VP, I’ve only watched the first of your 4 links, so I’m responding only that far. I agree with you, in that I think we all have to find our own way through this horror story. You appear to be intent on absorbing information from various sources; that is probably as good as any. I’ve chosen a different path: focusing on certain sites I’ve come to trust (e.g., ISW’s daily briefs); receiving reports from friends I trust implicitly (from sources ranging from Al Jazeera to threads from retired senior officers in Canada’s forces) and leaving the more popular websites to get on with their rather one-sided messaging.

I don’t like what Russia is inflicting on either the political structure, the military forces or the civilian population of Ukraine. I am supporting Ukraine to the best I’m able, as are most of my friends and family.

At the same time, I have spent a lot of time reading about WW2, and much of what is happening in Ukraine is essentially akin to what occurred in Poland, Norway, France and the lowlands, or even Spain during the SCW. It reeks of what happened in Sino-Japanese conflicts of the mid-1930s. I don’’t like it, but I think we have to remember what war is all about, and what it entails. Basically, it entails killing, stealing and bullying. The aim is to take control of space. Russia seems to have got the killing, stealing and bullying down pat. For a supposed world military power, they’ve not done very well in gaining “control of space”. But I think we’d be foolish to assume Ukraine will win this, or to think Russia can’t adapt to a different form of aggression.

At the risk of being considered naive, Russia’s ATGs were developed to defeat the Germans, and they worked for that purpose. They are finding they are much more vulnerable than thought, given the flexibility and power of hand-held tank busters or the increasing success of defensive missile deployment.

The link you offered that I looked at was pretty emotional, I admit. I was moved by the humanity of the speaker, and support his emotions to the full. But his butt isn’t in mortal combat (ever think about that phrase means?). Nor is mine. Nor is your’s. Nor – directly, at least – is Putin’s.

There is a strong emotional dimension to war. That’s why propaganda, well executed, has such power. I might argue, however, that beyond the emotion of the moment (short-term propaganda) there are deeper emotional commitments which can not just be used to justify a war but might also become so true that war is the answer. Europe and the west has expressed some concern that Putin’s foray into Ukraine, if too readily successful, will lead to attempts to take Moldova and/or Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. I think they are real concerns, based largely on Soviet holdings post-WW2.

Turn the fear/concern around, and you have Russia concerned about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and/or the EU. NATO in particular moves an anti-Soviet (yes, I mean Soviet) Bloc closer to Mother Russia’s borders. If that happens, in Russian thinking, what other moves might be made to bring the NATO threat nearer. I don’t for a moment believe that is NATO’s intent. But I can understand Russia’s concern.

I may be full of it. And maybe my comments mark me, at least with some MHOers, as too supportive of Russian actions. But I think unless we consider the realities of what all sides feel are vital in this current extension of a 7 year war, we’ll continue to demonize rather than search for solutions.

VP, please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions. I’m going a different way than you, but I enjoy hearing your reasoning.

Cheers
Brian G


Hi Brian G.

I apologize you gave me a well thought out response and I did not, frankly I was tired and should have waited for another day to do so but I tend to see things black and white to my own detriment and my thought process is wrought with emotional detours. You are not "full of it" and are not "marked" in my book or do I deem you supportive of Russian actions, I have found you to be a gentle caring soul over the years with opinions while different than mine more than occasionally but to be well reasoned and defiantly come from a good place with a disciplined mind that is scholarly and well read something I have long admired.

My initial thought behind posting these videos was just to show that Russians on a basic level and are just trying to live their lives as well, I was captivated by how closely the Russian youth compares to western young folks. I dont see Russia being the same country in 20 years with folks like I have watched in a few videos if they are true to life somewhat but I can say the same for my own country also run by geriatric elites all still scared by cold war unrealities. I read something recently that Putin is scared that a NATO base in the Ukraine would be to close to Moscow if Nato decided it was going to invade, Russia has always used its huge country to tire an enemy invasion by retreating through its vast territory and then counter attacking as they did with Napoleon, Hitler even the Turks. With Nukes I dont know how this would be possible today and nobody wants to invade Russia but Russian paranoia is a thing and its real.

I think Russia can solve these problems by just stop being dickheads, Germany is not going to roll into Poland anytime soon or France, France is not going to attack Austria, there are no Prussians left, The British have no Empire goals any more frankly the west is just scared of Russia and their nuclear stockpile all they wanted was cheap gas so they could shut down their nuclear reactors in the name of climate change?. The west were also dickheads that should have dissolved NATO or at least shown a willingness to do so when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think the invasions of Chechnya and Georgia later may have scared the west into its expansion, now after the invasion of the Ukraine it will only expand, military budgets will go up, and the poor will get poorer. A nuclear exchange has become a possibility again there seem to be a lack of peacemakers once again.

So BG please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions as well, we live in the free world (at least we dont have to worry about on a knock on the door yet) and I also enjoy your reasoning

So I get what your saying and its appreciated.

your bud

vpatrick










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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
6/12/2022 5:58:23 PM
More interesting videos

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[Read More]

vpatrick
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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
7/9/2022 3:47:00 PM
Ill just say I dont know where in Russia these videos are taken or how true they are but they are interesting, I just watch them on YouTube like everyone else.

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vpatrick
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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/12/2022 3:40:36 PM
A different take

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vpatrick
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nuts
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3062
Joined: 2010
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/12/2022 4:33:01 PM
Quote:
so I just throw a few IFAK med kits and compression bandages towards Kaii,

vpatrick


Can I just say Vin, that both you, Brian and Dan have been fantastic in your support for our efforts in Ukraine, and the medical kit you all have sent has been critical in saving lives in Ukraine. I am humbled and in awe of the way you guys responded to my call for help.

We have now built up a small stockpile, and luckily we also see that appropriate kit is starting to filter in through the official channels so for now we put a brake on the MHO medical project.

Thank you!

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/12/2022 7:37:20 PM
Kai, that is the closest I have heard to an honest evaluation of the way the Ukraine war has changed: you are now receiving medical supplies from official channels. IMHO, “official channels” means “war economy”, and says Ukraine has re-geared.

Let us know if the current supply situation changes.

Cheers, Kai. And stay safe.
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5653
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/21/2022 3:50:38 AM
What are we to make of the news that Alexander Dugin’s daughter has been killed in a car bomb explosion that was, presumably, supposed to have killed him ? Dugin has been described as Putin’s “brain”, and had been compared with Rasputin.
The daughter, thirty years old, had also espoused the father’s ultra nationalist mystical view of Russian history and had been sanctioned by the US and the U.K.

Last night she attended a dinner with her dad and they were meant to have travelled home together in the same car, but the father decided to drive in a separate car.

The daughter’s car exploded and burst into flames and she died as her distraught father watched.

Can you imagine anything more horrific ?

Do you think this was a Ukrainian operation, or might it be the work of Russian dissidents ?

The effect on Putin himself must be traumatic.

Is Ukraine pulling out all stops and going all out to win before winter sets in and the energy crisis undermines European resolve to help ?

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1056
Joined: 2005
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/21/2022 12:33:28 PM
Just another event that will prolong this war and may assist in re-heating events in the Balkans between Kosovo and Serbia. Putin has his hands in many areas of Europe, hell the energy crisis alone that western Europe is going to face may strangle not just many western European civilians, it may have a direct impact on what future support those nations provide Ukraine. Add in the food stuffs and how Putin has shut the transportation valve off in the Black Sea, is yet another kick from Putin against Ukraine and western European countries.

IMO, until Putin is gone, western Europe is in big trouble.





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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/21/2022 1:46:47 PM
Quote:
What are we to make of the news that Alexander Dugin’s daughter has been killed in a car bomb explosion that was, presumably, supposed to have killed him ? Dugin has been described as Putin’s “brain”, and had been compared with Rasputin.
The daughter, thirty years old, had also espoused the father’s ultra nationalist mystical view of Russian history and had been sanctioned by the US and the U.K.

Last night she attended a dinner with her dad and they were meant to have travelled home together in the same car, but the father decided to drive in a separate car.

The daughter’s car exploded and burst into flames and she died as her distraught father watched.

Can you imagine anything more horrific ?


Regards, Phil


Hi Phil,

I can imagine something more horrific actually [Read More] [Read More] [Read More]. I am all for monsters feeling the same pain their idiotic ideas cause other parents to feel. This is not an arch duke Ferdinhand moment the war has already begun. I have a suspicion the Putin regime themselves did it to make an excuse for mobilization, I do not put anything past these dumb monsters. This war is not going to end nicely its going to be horrific I fear and I dont see any real peacemakers stepping up anytime soon unfortunately. By the way the first video I posted was shot in March I cant imagine how many dead children Ukraine has now.

My first paragraph is my usual emotional response but I am not naïve and also realize that this bombing may have real ramifications and have implications that will affect us all but one has to ask themselves do we want to live in a world where a bully paranoid autocratic nation can invade a neighbor for no real reasons other than they dont like how things are going there? Or are we going to sit back and allow it and hope for the best? My gut tells me to make it very painful for Russia to show the world what it looks like when diplomacy fails but what the hell do I know I work in a jail for a living. I pray for peace.

respectfully,

vpatrick

one more [Read More]
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Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5653
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/22/2022 3:58:16 AM
Vin,

Your message received loud and clear.

My question “ Can you imagine anything more horrific?” was rhetorical, although, God knows, the thought of a father watching his daughter die in a fireball…..well, enough said.

The question that drives me is the motivation behind the killing : Ukrainian operatives, Russian dissidents ?

If the former, does this portend a full on Ukrainian counter offensive designed to undermine Russian morale as the attacks on the Crimea are extended into the very suburbs of Moscow?

If the latter, which dissidents : anti war , or, God forbid, Russian extremists who want to intensify the onslaught against Ukraine and think that Putin and his entourage haven’t gone hard enough ?

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1508
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/22/2022 6:59:27 PM
I see nothing about this hit in the MSM in the US today. Maybe all holding their breath to see where the cards fall? If this was the work of Russian dissidents of any stripe would it not be a super bold move? What would Ukraine have to gain by such a move? Someone somewhere certainly felt bold enough to pull Putins tail.

Larry.
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/22/2022 10:11:33 PM
The Dugin assassination is indeed an added ugliness to an already horrific battle, if it has anything directly to do with the Russian incursion. Right now, I don’t think we know what happened, except that a perfectly good Toyota Land Cruiser was blown up. Seldom in my recent adult life have I felt quite so cynical; never in my MHO posting life, IIRC, have I written so callously about a human death.

What the hell is going on? Potential scenarios:

1. This was a Ukrainian move, meant to bring random death to Mother Russia, at least to those who support the Russian incursion.
2. This was a dissident Russian move, meant to strike at Putin supporters or advisors concerning the Russian incursion.
3. This was a killing between factions of the Russian oligarchy, associated with internal Russian power struggles and nothing to do with the Russian incursion in Ukraine.
4. This was a killing by Putin security forces, meant for propaganda purposes and designed to unite the Russian people against the fascist enemy who are oppressing the people of Ukraine.
5. This is Putin’s way of punishing Dugin for bad advise in the lead-up to the February incursion.

Larry, I don’t know about US broadcast media, but Canadian and British media are all over it, as are at least some US MSM online. According to one report, the assassin was a Ukrainian woman who escaped through one of the Baltic states (I believe, Latvia). Russian state officials are threatening reprisals unless the woman is delivered; Latvians are saying they know nothing about it and have had no communications with Moscow regarding any culpability.

As to my list of scenarios, I have simply listed possibilities as they came to me, not in order of possibility. I think Ukraine too sensible of its need to maintain a moral high ground with those “allies” supplying it weapons to act so irresponsibly. Because any Ukraine mission in Russia would be irresponsible. To maintain continued levels of support, Ukraine must be the ravished virgin. Surprise punches in Crimea or occupied territory is one thing. Attacking the suburbs of Moscow would be a stupid Ukrainian move.

I’ve read a few books in my time. And I’m thinking about one of the basic tenets described in one of the best dystopian novels ever written (1984): War Is Peace. Putin needs this conflict, for a host of reasons. Perhaps certain NATO and EU allies also need this, for all kinds of disparate reasons.

I’d like to get back to a less cynical me. But for the present, I think many of us are going to have to re-learn newspeak

Cheers
Brian G





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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5653
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/25/2022 6:06:27 AM
Brian,

Those five scenarios are all feasible.

Number 3 carries more weight than many might imagine : so I would opine.

Editing : can’t help thinking of that ancient Hebrew story of the Daughter of Jephthah.


Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/25/2022 8:19:58 PM
Phil, thanks for your “[I} can’t help thinking of that ancient Hebrew story of the Daughter of Jephthah.” At the same time, I can’t quite connect it to scenario 3, if that was your intention. But oddly, I had been listening to some early Bob Dylan. Perhaps Dylan’s either-or version of Abraham and Isaac was in my mind, particularly when I listed scenario 4 – which is rapidly becoming my own favourite possibility.

Your gift of the daughter of Jephthah was , I assume, unintended. But it suggests to me that I should spend more time reading the religio-cultural richness of the three faiths of the Book. Her story may be widely known to many, but was unknown to me.

Cheers
Brian G




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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5653
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
8/26/2022 12:42:33 AM
Brian,

The Daughter of Jephthah strikes me as spookily appropriate , but, obviously, not as an endorsement of option 3 of your scenarios.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2252
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
9/25/2022 1:32:40 AM
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brave people

vpatrick
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nuts

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