MILITARY HISTORY ONLINE

User:  
Password:  
 
 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
Message
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/23/2022 5:42:49 PM
I watched this video and I saw fear in some of the respondents eyes, maybe my western eyes blinded by my own media and government made me see that I dunno, but I did see fear and I did see bravery I know that. So from my perspective after the American Revolution, the French Revolution and an all of the philosophers of enlightenment be them French, American and even going back to to Greek democracy its very sad to this day citizens even in Russia, Russians still fear their government. I dont think we are advanced as we think we are, I think we are the same vicious species that we always have been since the first Neanderthal took a rock and killed his neighbor because he liked his valley. Now our populations are so big humans can just give a shoulder shrug when asked about murder and mayhem going on with a similar race and people just a few miles away (Ukraine) because Putin is sad about this dissolution of a corrupt decrepit empire that flopped on its fat belly.



[Read More]

[Read More]



Just a thought I had when watching these videos and couldn't help but thinking the civilian masses are sheep being herded throughout history to think a certain way hate a certain people country or political class by bomb thrower sociopaths that lead a Nation or Empire to its peril the peacemakers are few throughout history.


vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/25/2022 8:33:09 PM
VP, before I go any further I’d like to point out that there are some heroes who literally “did nothing” to save the world. [Read More]

I’ve had a bit of trouble viewing the two videos you linked to. For some time, the translation was obscured. But I agree at least to some extent in your assessment concerning fear in some of those approached by the cameras.

I’ll be honest. I wouldn’t have answered similar questions accurately either. I might do so were they asked in Canada – though should I do that I might expect a visit from CSIS or the RCMP – but not if I were asked them by US media or authorities while I was visiting.

I was particularly struck by your sense that as humans we “can just give a shoulder shrug when asked about murder and mayhem going on with a similar race and people just a few miles away (Ukraine).” That’s not new to our crowded planet. May I share the words of PM Neville Chamberlain on 27 September 1938, explaining to the British nation (and the world over shortwave) his views on the Sudeten crisis. These are his words:

“How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war.

I can well understand the reasons why the Czech Government have felt unable to accept the terms which have been put before them in the German memorandum. Yet I believe after my talks with Herr Hitler that, if only time were allowed, it ought to be possible for the arrangements for transferring the territory that the Czech Government has agreed to give to Germany to be settled by agreement under conditions which would assure fair treatment to the population concerned.

You know already that I have done all that one man can do to compose this quarrel. After my visits to Germany I have realised vividly how Herr Hitler feels that he must champion other Germans, and his indignation that grievances have not been met before this. He told me privately, and last night he repeated publicly, that after this Sudeten German question is settled, that is the end of Germany’s territorial claims in Europe.”


In my books, Chamberlain sold out. Even before he returned to Munich to bow down to Hitler and Mussolini. Or, at kindest, he asked the Czechs to give away part of their country and heritage for the comfort of others. Which 23% of the US would you happily cede to Canada on the words of Boris Johnson, in order to maintain the current nature of the Commonwealth?

My current tailor is Latvian by birth. Russian Latvian by birth who moved to Victoria in the early 1990s. She’s a tough old bird, not trusting any government to do anything to support anything but itself. Nevertheless, she’s proud to be Russian. But I have friends giving me names of new tailors. Because she is Russian; because she should be sanctioned. Crap. She’s my tailor, not my political advisor. I’d be more prone to dump a tailor because she doesn’t wear a face mask than because she was born Russian.

Cheers,
Brian G



----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1161
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/25/2022 10:57:48 PM
Thank you for those videos. It's great to see everyday people (albeit mostly young) give their opinions.
----------------------------------
"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/26/2022 8:09:18 PM
Brian W, I agree. I had meant to talk about that, but my own momentum took me past that.

I’m not sure we know if these polls were random, or staged; we don’t know whether we’re viewing a random sampling or carefully chosen responses;. I, at least, don’t know who conducted these polls, where they were conducted, who may have commissioned them, how the results may be used. So in truth I have no idea of what this sampling is supposed to tell us.

Honestly, I tend to ignore those with only “nyet” or “da” as an answer. But the longer comments were, IMHO, largely thoughtful and well-considered from all age groups. I’m not certain I would expect such considerate commentary from a random group of Canadians, to be honest.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1161
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/27/2022 10:27:17 PM
Brian, I'm pretty certain they weren't staged. The interviewer is just talking to people on the street. You're overthinking it.
The sampling tells me that Putin's propaganda machine is effective. As we see with his approval rating. It's pretty sad.

I'm glad VP sent the links.
----------------------------------
"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/27/2022 11:29:01 PM
So am I. Thanks, VP.
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 11:12:44 AM
I think everything we read or watch in the media should be received with some amount of skepticism all we can do is view them and come to our own conclusions based on balancing all of the information. I probably dont need to say this because sadly we all do this now anyway since there is so much misinformation in our available media sources and the media's goals seem more concerned with trying to influence rather than inform. I do think some to tend to value information we want to hear higher or more credible than news we dont want to hear based on biases, I have been guilty of this for one. One thing I do know though is Russia invaded a neighbor needlessly and ruined peaceful civilians lives and caused so much unnecessary pain on old folks children and women. There was no Ukrainian missile aimed at Russia there were no weapons of mass destruction meant for Russia, just a country that Russia wanted to Belorussialyze and when Russian troops were not meant with flowers the Russians started shooting at the folks they thought were going to give them flowers. All I need to know.

I have been utterly stopped and shocked in my shoes since the Feb 24th invasion of Ukraine I cant figure out how, why and who it will ultimately benefit and I am horrified beyond what a written word can convey about the humanitarian cost of this needless invasion that is mired in ignorance and evil, so I just throw a few IFAK med kits and compression bandages towards Kaii, scour the internet in search of some answer and post a few videos I thought were meaningful on MHO as to why this is happening. Not all sources and not all answers are legit and I realize this but I definitely delight in watching a Russian tank explode especially after watching what happened in Bucha. Not much more I can do. [Read More]

Anyway more videos,

[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Thanks both Brians

vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 9:49:53 PM
VP, I’ve only watched the first of your 4 links, so I’m responding only that far. I agree with you, in that I think we all have to find our own way through this horror story. You appear to be intent on absorbing information from various sources; that is probably as good as any. I’ve chosen a different path: focusing on certain sites I’ve come to trust (e.g., ISW’s daily briefs); receiving reports from friends I trust implicitly (from sources ranging from Al Jazeera to threads from retired senior officers in Canada’s forces) and leaving the more popular websites to get on with their rather one-sided messaging.

I don’t like what Russia is inflicting on either the political structure, the military forces or the civilian population of Ukraine. I am supporting Ukraine to the best I’m able, as are most of my friends and family.

At the same time, I have spent a lot of time reading about WW2, and much of what is happening in Ukraine is essentially akin to what occurred in Poland, Norway, France and the lowlands, or even Spain during the SCW. It reeks of what happened in Sino-Japanese conflicts of the mid-1930s. I don’’t like it, but I think we have to remember what war is all about, and what it entails. Basically, it entails killing, stealing and bullying. The aim is to take control of space. Russia seems to have got the killing, stealing and bullying down pat. For a supposed world military power, they’ve not done very well in gaining “control of space”. But I think we’d be foolish to assume Ukraine will win this, or to think Russia can’t adapt to a different form of aggression.

At the risk of being considered naive, Russia’s ATGs were developed to defeat the Germans, and they worked for that purpose. They are finding they are much more vulnerable than thought, given the flexibility and power of hand-held tank busters or the increasing success of defensive missile deployment.

The link you offered that I looked at was pretty emotional, I admit. I was moved by the humanity of the speaker, and support his emotions to the full. But his butt isn’t in mortal combat (ever think about that phrase means?). Nor is mine. Nor is your’s. Nor – directly, at least – is Putin’s.

There is a strong emotional dimension to war. That’s why propaganda, well executed, has such power. I might argue, however, that beyond the emotion of the moment (short-term propaganda) there are deeper emotional commitments which can not just be used to justify a war but might also become so true that war is the answer. Europe and the west has expressed some concern that Putin’s foray into Ukraine, if too readily successful, will lead to attempts to take Moldova and/or Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. I think they are real concerns, based largely on Soviet holdings post-WW2.

Turn the fear/concern around, and you have Russia concerned about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and/or the EU. NATO in particular moves an anti-Soviet (yes, I mean Soviet) Bloc closer to Mother Russia’s borders. If that happens, in Russian thinking, what other moves might be made to bring the NATO threat nearer. I don’t for a moment believe that is NATO’s intent. But I can understand Russia’s concern.

I may be full of it. And maybe my comments mark me, at least with some MHOers, as too supportive of Russian actions. But I think unless we consider the realities of what all sides feel are vital in this current extension of a 7 year war, we’ll continue to demonize rather than search for solutions.

VP, please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions. I’m going a different way than you, but I enjoy hearing your reasoning.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
4/29/2022 10:52:56 PM
Brian G.

I hear you but sometimes you just have to pick a side this one is easy.


vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
5/1/2022 6:00:24 PM
Quote:
VP, I’ve only watched the first of your 4 links, so I’m responding only that far. I agree with you, in that I think we all have to find our own way through this horror story. You appear to be intent on absorbing information from various sources; that is probably as good as any. I’ve chosen a different path: focusing on certain sites I’ve come to trust (e.g., ISW’s daily briefs); receiving reports from friends I trust implicitly (from sources ranging from Al Jazeera to threads from retired senior officers in Canada’s forces) and leaving the more popular websites to get on with their rather one-sided messaging.

I don’t like what Russia is inflicting on either the political structure, the military forces or the civilian population of Ukraine. I am supporting Ukraine to the best I’m able, as are most of my friends and family.

At the same time, I have spent a lot of time reading about WW2, and much of what is happening in Ukraine is essentially akin to what occurred in Poland, Norway, France and the lowlands, or even Spain during the SCW. It reeks of what happened in Sino-Japanese conflicts of the mid-1930s. I don’’t like it, but I think we have to remember what war is all about, and what it entails. Basically, it entails killing, stealing and bullying. The aim is to take control of space. Russia seems to have got the killing, stealing and bullying down pat. For a supposed world military power, they’ve not done very well in gaining “control of space”. But I think we’d be foolish to assume Ukraine will win this, or to think Russia can’t adapt to a different form of aggression.

At the risk of being considered naive, Russia’s ATGs were developed to defeat the Germans, and they worked for that purpose. They are finding they are much more vulnerable than thought, given the flexibility and power of hand-held tank busters or the increasing success of defensive missile deployment.

The link you offered that I looked at was pretty emotional, I admit. I was moved by the humanity of the speaker, and support his emotions to the full. But his butt isn’t in mortal combat (ever think about that phrase means?). Nor is mine. Nor is your’s. Nor – directly, at least – is Putin’s.

There is a strong emotional dimension to war. That’s why propaganda, well executed, has such power. I might argue, however, that beyond the emotion of the moment (short-term propaganda) there are deeper emotional commitments which can not just be used to justify a war but might also become so true that war is the answer. Europe and the west has expressed some concern that Putin’s foray into Ukraine, if too readily successful, will lead to attempts to take Moldova and/or Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. I think they are real concerns, based largely on Soviet holdings post-WW2.

Turn the fear/concern around, and you have Russia concerned about the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO and/or the EU. NATO in particular moves an anti-Soviet (yes, I mean Soviet) Bloc closer to Mother Russia’s borders. If that happens, in Russian thinking, what other moves might be made to bring the NATO threat nearer. I don’t for a moment believe that is NATO’s intent. But I can understand Russia’s concern.

I may be full of it. And maybe my comments mark me, at least with some MHOers, as too supportive of Russian actions. But I think unless we consider the realities of what all sides feel are vital in this current extension of a 7 year war, we’ll continue to demonize rather than search for solutions.

VP, please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions. I’m going a different way than you, but I enjoy hearing your reasoning.

Cheers
Brian G


Hi Brian G.

I apologize you gave me a well thought out response and I did not, frankly I was tired and should have waited for another day to do so but I tend to see things black and white to my own detriment and my thought process is wrought with emotional detours. You are not "full of it" and are not "marked" in my book or do I deem you supportive of Russian actions, I have found you to be a gentle caring soul over the years with opinions while different than mine more than occasionally but to be well reasoned and defiantly come from a good place with a disciplined mind that is scholarly and well read something I have long admired.

My initial thought behind posting these videos was just to show that Russians on a basic level and are just trying to live their lives as well, I was captivated by how closely the Russian youth compares to western young folks. I dont see Russia being the same country in 20 years with folks like I have watched in a few videos if they are true to life somewhat but I can say the same for my own country also run by geriatric elites all still scared by cold war unrealities. I read something recently that Putin is scared that a NATO base in the Ukraine would be to close to Moscow if Nato decided it was going to invade, Russia has always used its huge country to tire an enemy invasion by retreating through its vast territory and then counter attacking as they did with Napoleon, Hitler even the Turks. With Nukes I dont know how this would be possible today and nobody wants to invade Russia but Russian paranoia is a thing and its real.

I think Russia can solve these problems by just stop being dickheads, Germany is not going to roll into Poland anytime soon or France, France is not going to attack Austria, there are no Prussians left, The British have no Empire goals any more frankly the west is just scared of Russia and their nuclear stockpile all they wanted was cheap gas so they could shut down their nuclear reactors in the name of climate change?. The west were also dickheads that should have dissolved NATO or at least shown a willingness to do so when the Soviet Union collapsed, I think the invasions of Chechnya and Georgia later may have scared the west into its expansion, now after the invasion of the Ukraine it will only expand, military budgets will go up, and the poor will get poorer. A nuclear exchange has become a possibility again there seem to be a lack of peacemakers once again.

So BG please keep posting your thoughts, feelings and opinions as well, we live in the free world (at least we dont have to worry about on a knock on the door yet) and I also enjoy your reasoning

So I get what your saying and its appreciated.

your bud

vpatrick










----------------------------------
nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
The Faces of the Russian People during a Special Operation
6/12/2022 5:58:23 PM
More interesting videos

[Read More]

[Read More]

vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts

© 2022 - MilitaryHistoryOnline.com LLC