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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1438
Joined: 2004
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/14/2022 3:16:50 PM
Numerous news reports say the Moskva has been hit, on fire or sunk. Is there a good source for accurate information?

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3046
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/14/2022 3:46:48 PM
Quote:
Numerous news reports say the Moskva has been hit, on fire or sunk. Is there a good source for accurate information?

Larry


No it appears to still be afloat, but has taken some serious damage. Heading for repairs in Sevastopol at the moment by the looks of it.
EDIT: it was just confirmed now that it has indeed been sunk, the efforts to save it and tow it to Sevastopol were in vain. I massive win for Ukraine.

There are some rumours in Odesa that the Poles have delivered a battery of truck mounted NSN missiles, and that these are responsible for the sinking of the ships in the region, but it appears more likely that Ukraine has started production of their Neptune missiles-they probably only have about a dozen or so at the moment so will choose their targets carefully, but if the Moskva was really hit by two Neptunes it is bad news for the Russians - given that the Moskva was probably the best protected asset in the Black Sea (or perhaps not, if the Russians believed it to be unattackable?).

For now it is a toss up whether the ship was hit by missiles or damaged by negligent crew, either case is bad news for the Russians.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3046
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/14/2022 6:41:32 PM
if the reports we are getting unofficially from Ukrainians on the ground are correct, the Ukrainians swarmed the Moskva's anti/air systems with drones before lobbing in two Neptune missiles that could break through the defences because they were blocked by tracking masses of drones and because the radar coverage for the longer range AA systems was blocked by the ships superstructure.

if correct, it would represent a naval implementation of the successful swarm concept they used to destroy the Russian columns around Kyiv.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/14/2022 7:47:06 PM
And this just in from the UK’s “Guardian”: Moskva has sunk.
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/15/2022 6:05:04 PM
If only the Russians would have moved out of the way, Ukrainian farmers could have saved the Moskva.



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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/15/2022 6:50:13 PM
Given the reported withdrawal of other Russian naval assets since the loss of Moskva to more distant waters off Odessa and the increased aerial assaults on Kiiv, it is hard to continue to accept Russian explanations of fires and explosions by accident.

From everything I’ve read, the loss of an asset such as Moskva can’t help but make Russia’s southern plans more difficult to achieve. I’m not suggesting she was anything like an Aegis class USN cruiser, but IIUC she was meant to be both an offensive and defensive weapon. Of course, the defensive capabilities may have been over-rated, given her loss. Can anyone tell me: did she ever fire any of those 16 big tubes? I can’t remember reading about that specifically.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4209
Joined: 2004
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/15/2022 7:43:42 PM
Sorry, but gotta ask at least one more question on this thread.

Are there any photos showing damage to Moskva, or if there are would they be classified? Anybody know?

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 177
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/15/2022 11:41:47 PM
Brian,

I have not seen any info on whether or not the Moskva had fired any missiles. The Russian Ministry of Defense has not said anything and neither has the US or NATO. The Russian Ministry of Defense did release two short videos of what appears to be Russian corvettes firing missiles and two ships that are unidentifiable.

The Moskva was packed with various armaments and any fire, whatever the cause, had the potential to be deadly. For air defense it had the S-300. Here is a video of the Moskva conducting exercises last year in the Black Sea.

[Read More]

Here is a picture of the Moskva showing the various armaments on it. Be sure to get the highest definition photo. I'm on Firefox and I right click on the photo and open the image in a new tab. That will give you the highest resolution.

[Read More]

As for pictures of the ship on fire neither the Russians nor the US/NATO are willing to share at this time. There was too much cloud cover for commercial satellites to get pictures.

Gary
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3046
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/16/2022 12:19:52 PM
Quote:
Sorry, but gotta ask at least one more question on this thread.

Are there any photos showing damage to Moskva, or if there are would they be classified? Anybody know?

Cheers
Brian G


So far nothing has been released and I suppose it is unlikely it will be.

There was a widely circulated video on Twitter yesterday that supposedly showed the two missiles strike CG Moskva, supposedly filmed from one of the Bayraktar drones, but since the video was clearly a simulation from a computer software and showed an Arleigh Burke class destroyer playing the role of Moskva, I assumed it was fake....(too many people immediately shared it as real though, which is a huge problem now).

It is a really difficult call for the Russians; do we admit that the Ukrainians outsmarted us and sunk the ship, or do we admit that our navy is incompetent and corrupt and has neglected maintenance for years? They appear to be running with the last one, and have reportedly arrested the Head of the lack Sea Fleet today.

K

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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5452
Joined: 2004
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/16/2022 2:41:53 PM
Kaii,

What is the truth about the death of the Captain ? And what of the rest of the crew ?

This comes forty years after the sinking of the Belgrano, which cost two or three hundred Argentinian lives. I thin that Moskva was the bigger ship.

Ironic that this Russian ship was the one that encountered the Ukrainian defiance at Snake Island : a lot of hype about the fate of the garrison there, too.

We first read that they had been obliterated, and then that they had been taken prisoner.


Regards, Phil


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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3046
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/16/2022 5:11:29 PM
Quote:
Kaii,

What is the truth about the death of the Captain ? And what of the rest of the crew ?

This comes forty years after the sinking of the Belgrano, which cost two or three hundred Argentinian lives. I thin that Moskva was the bigger ship.

Ironic that this Russian ship was the one that encountered the Ukrainian defiance at Snake Island : a lot of hype about the fate of the garrison there, too.

We first read that they had been obliterated, and then that they had been taken prisoner.


Regards, Phil




Hard to say Phil, but I have a feeling the captain and a good share of his crew died heroically as part of the special operation to denazify Ukraine...
I see Russia published images today of what was supposedly crew members from Moskva receiving some sort of medal or recognition, but at the same time apparently the Head of the Black Sea fleet was arrested by FSB around the same time...

A really interesting report today is that Eduard Basurin has ben arrested by FSB forces sent from Moscow. This is one of the key figures in the "Donetsk People's Republic" and could indicate serious internal strife going on on the Russian side.

"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest." / Churchill
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/16/2022 6:41:18 PM
Hi Kaii,

I wonder how long Russia can wage war? I have read while on paper Russia has 13 thousand tanks on paper they may have only about 3000 that are in working order and by conservative estimates they have lost 500 tanks (I must have seen 500 hundred tanks destroyed on youtube videos myself it would seem) or so and at least double that or more BTRs along with trucks, fuel trucks, rocket systems etc. What I have read the Russians only have two Plants that produce tanks and munitions and are no means anywhere close with WW2 production levels and it would take years for them to replace such losses. Nevermind the fact alot of the parts were made in the Ukraine and even in the West as far as chips and other tech. Russia is a big country that needs defending all along its vast borders and Putin's tank forces are getting thin. Also there will be no lend lease for Russia this time as they are the Nazis in this scenario and with their anemic economy these losses are devastating and their world power diminished. I just wonder if his aim is to finally secure Mariupol secure a land corridor between Crimea and the Donbass and call it a win?

While Putin may be diverting forces in the East Im sure the Ukrainians are doing the same and if Putin was to unleash a WW2 like offensive in the East and secures his objectives the casualties the loss of military hardware may be irreplaceable. And by judging the Ukrainians I doubt they would just sit back and let Putin declare a win and will settle in for a protracted insurgency that will bleed Russia more. From what I have read if Putin was to drop a tactical Nuke in the east he would most likely be killing Russians as the wind blows into Russia and alot in the East are Ethnic Russians. I dunno but it seems Putins options are getting limited and with his Black Sea fleet in retreat maybe even more so. I just hope Putin doesn't drop a Nuke on Kyiv.

vpatrick

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nuts
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 659
Joined: 2005
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/16/2022 8:01:13 PM
Interesting that Russia isn't using its ballistic submarine missile fleet to pulverize Ukrainian cities, and also, was the Moskva supported/protected by screening ships at all?
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2212
Joined: 2020
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/17/2022 7:08:15 PM
Hey Wazza,

We dont really know if Russia are using their submarines maybe they are, to launch a missile in the sea from a submerged sub is hard to track? I wish everything talked about as far as giving Migs to the Ukrainians and other battle systems such as s300 air defense systems etc was not a news story just give them to them I dont need to know. At this point after the utter destruction of Maripol and the butchery of Bucha give them patriot missile systems, f15s, abrams tanks, harpoon missiles, whatever they need Biden said this week the Russians are committing genocide how can he not now supply such weapons now?

And firmly tell the Russians who threaten western powers about the consequences of weapon deliveries to the Ukraine that we have Nuclear weapons as well and you wont have to worry about western weapons harming your troops if you leave Ukraine. It seems this is the only language Putin understands.


vpatrick
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nuts
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 177
Joined: 2010
Has the Moskva been sunk?
4/17/2022 8:03:45 PM
Some photos allegedly of the Moskva on fire.

[Read More]

Gary

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