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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1508
Joined: 2004
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 10:07:42 AM
Despite President Zelenskyy's call for Russia to be removed from the UN security council my personal opinion is that there is a distinct lack of will for this and a lot of fear on the other members part.

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12348
Joined: 2009
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 12:32:56 PM
Quote:
Despite President Zelenskyy's call for Russia to be removed from the UN security council my personal opinion is that there is a distinct lack of will for this and a lot of fear on the other members part.

Larry


It would be a tough sell and there is the matter of legality. Article 23 of Chapter 5 of the UN Charter describes the make-up of the Security Council and that guarantees that the USSR shall have a permanent position on the S.C. That country plus the UK, China, the US and France have veto power over any SC resolution. It is a flaw in the design of the UN in my view. It tells me that these five have more influence than the rest of us in a supposedly "united" forum.

Quote:
Article 23
The Security Council shall consist of fifteen Members of the United Nations. The Republic of China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America shall be permanent members of the Security Council. The General Assembly shall elect ten other Members of the United Nations to be non-permanent members of the Security Council, due regard being specially paid, in the first instance to the contribution of Members of the United Nations to the maintenance of international peace and security and to the other purposes of the Organization, and also to equitable geographical distribution.

The non-permanent members of the Security Council shall be elected for a term of two years. In the first election of the non-permanent members after the increase of the membership of the Security Council from eleven to fifteen, two of the four additional members shall be chosen for a term of one year. A retiring member shall not be eligible for immediate re-election.

Each member of the Security Council shall have one representative.


I looked at that and wondered why Article 23 has not been amended to mention Russia rather than the USSR.

The Charter can be amended according to directions in Article 108 and that says that 2/3 of the General Assembly must adopt the amendment and ratified by 2/3 of the member nations which include the Security Council members.

The Charter has been amended a number of times but I wonder whether an amendment to remove Russia from the Security Council would find approval of at least 2/3 of the nations. We could make a list of all the countries that need Russian oil and gas and go from there.

I have always wondered why 5 nations of the UN have the right to veto amendments. Perhaps that is the only way that the large powers would consider joining. I also believe that any of the permanent members could block the selection of the Secretary-General even if that person had wide support in the General Assembly.

Still I concur that Russia has demonstrated that it should not have the responsibility to pass judgement on any resolutions or actions coming from the S.C.

So who is willing to put forward an amendment to remove Russia from the S.C. ? And should that happen, would Russia remain in the UN or withdraw? Despite criticisms the UN is the only forum that we have for the nations of the earth to share ideas and to promote programmes (food, education, peace keeping etc) that contribute to the betterment of all. Would a rogue country that is no longer a member of the UN be more of a danger? Right now Russia worries me and I don't know how it would react if backed into a corner.

Cheers,

George


Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5653
Joined: 2004
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 1:03:05 PM
Such a move would achieve nothing to save Ukraine ; indeed, I think it would compound the evils that afflict it.

What would really help Ukraine now is Germany stopping the import of Russian gas : a move that her political leaders shy away from, but that many among her public are beginning to demand.

This is what I read in the British press, but I'm mindful of Trevor's warnings to disregard this.


Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 177
Joined: 2010
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 2:14:28 PM
Quote:
Despite President Zelenskyy's call for Russia to be removed from the UN security council my personal opinion is that there is a distinct lack of will for this and a lot of fear on the other members part.

Larry

While I fully understand the anger and frustration that Zelenskyy is expressing with his call to remove Russia from the UN Security Council it appears to be both illegal and just not a good idea. A few days ago I read this article from the Netherlands on this very subject. It's from a legal authority on this issue and worth the read.

[Read More]

Gary
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12348
Joined: 2009
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 2:28:06 PM
Excellent article, Gary. Very informative.

George
john hayward
Keene NH USA
Posts: 921
Joined: 2004
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 3:18:28 PM
The veto was the result of extensive discussion during the negotiations for the formation of the United Nations at Dumbarton Oaks and Yalta. The evidence is that the United States, Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and China all favored the principle of unanimity, not only out of desire for the major powers to act together, but also to protect their own sovereign rights and national interests. Harry S. Truman, who became President of the United States in April 1945, wrote: "All our experts, civil and military, favored it, and without such a veto no arrangement would have passed the Senate." We know what happened to the League of Nations and the US when that treaty went before the Senate.

At San Francisco, the Big Five made it clear that there would be no United Nations if they were not given the veto. Francis O. Wilcox, an adviser to the US delegation, described the dramatic negotiations: "At San Francisco, the issue was made crystal clear by the leaders of the Big Five: it was either the Charter with the veto or no Charter at all. Senator Connally [from the US delegation] dramatically tore up a copy of the Charter during one of his speeches and reminded the small states that they would be guilty of that same if they opposed the unanimity principle. 'You may, if you wish,' he said, 'go home from this Conference and say that you have defeated the veto. But what will be your answer when you are asked: "Where is the Charter"?'"

Nationalist China was removed from the SC in 1971 and replaced with mainland China. This is the only example. Not sure if removing Russia is an answer
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"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
mikecmaps
CAMARILLO CA USA
Posts: 161
Joined: 2020
Boot Russia from the U.N security council?
4/6/2022 6:04:13 PM


Gary and John thanks, excellent!

Whatever the political-procedure Russia certainly deserves to be kicked out. And as John indicated an original permanent member
was kicked out in 1971. Original charter specifically called out Republic of China and U.S.S.R.
It’s a clear precedent that an original permanent member be kicked out. Now we just need the will and figure out the process.
The whole purpose of UN is to promote international peace and security for members.
There is no way Russia can be said to be living up to that and doing more harm than good to stay.
Kick them out. Figure it out, kick them out. There is clear precedent, get it done.

yours, Mike_C.
mikecmaps

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