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 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
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Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
Afghanistan going down?
9/5/2021 7:58:40 PM
Brian W, interesting post on 9/1. Don’t agree with everything you say, of course, but can’t fault most of your assessments.

Two comments: one general, one specific.
• You write as if this were a US war, rather than an NATO commitment, and as if the job is to attack the Taliban rather than provide assistance to the Kabul junta. You point out, e.g., Quote:
…I think the Taliban know we'll be back if it becomes a cesspool for terrorism. The Taliban hate ISIS-K (supposedly). We know that the Taliban thwarted several attempts by ISIS-K to cause issues with our withdrawal.
So what? Whoever said “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” simply got it wrong.
• You seem to see this as a US catastrophe, rather than a catastrophe touching many NATO nations as well as the Afghans themselves. And of course it is a US catastrophe, probably in more ways than for other NATO. The abrupt US withdrawal under conditions US intelligence was blind to have damaged the reputations of other countries as well. That’s unfair for a variety of reasons. But the point is that this was a NATO mission overpowered by US values and beliefs.

The US has some stuff to work through. I wish them luck: the US has been a poor learner since the 1950s, and IMHO has not learned the first lesson: that they may be wrong. That creates a lot of pain for many other peoples.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3062
Joined: 2010
Afghanistan going down?
9/6/2021 2:44:52 PM
Quote:
I think the west could continue to offer support in such areas (as Kai’s note concerning a Norwegian field hospital that is remaining suggests).
Brian G


The Norwegian field hospital was pulled out from Kabul airport as one of the last NATO units to leave.

There are western organisations working there though, I was approached yesterday with a job offer by a Norwegian NGO that is active there and will continue to provide support for civilian communities around the country, I believe there are a number of other NGOs from different western countries that intend to stay on as well.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2007
Afghanistan going down?
9/11/2021 12:09:03 AM
It now appears that our current commander in chief has:

Ordered the US military to carry out the most fucked up withdrawal operation in history.

Stranded hundreds of Americans in Taliban controlled territory, then in a clean-up effort....evacuated 120,000 Afghans who were, for the most part, not the people we had promised to get out..those who worked with our military for years and their families. Done so they could brag about "the greatest airlift in history.

Got 13 American marines killed, and many more wounded.

Installed the Bowe Bergdahl five into leadership of the Taliban government.

And now, if the New York Times reporting is correct....ordered a drone strike in retaliation for the bombing that killed our marines....that actually killed an aide worker for an American-backed organization called Nutrition and Education International...who was bringing water to his family and killed him and 7 of his children!
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 671
Joined: 2005
Afghanistan going down?
9/11/2021 6:41:44 PM
Farcical beyond belief.
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1508
Joined: 2004
Afghanistan going down?
9/11/2021 7:48:12 PM
The saddest part is Afghanistan is already being forgotten. Soon all the blood and money wasted there will be just that, wasted. I can only wonder what the next U.S. foreign fiasco will be.

Larry.
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2004
Afghanistan going down?
9/11/2021 9:09:33 PM
Larry, can you help me a bit here? Today is the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 assault on US icons. I’m hearing it everywhere, to the extent that I turned off my normal radio (NPR-linked). I’m one of the rare folks who believe commemoration of 9/11 is a negative action. At the same time, Afghanistan is a direct result of 9/11, at least in US military thinking. Is it fair of me to ask whether your comments (which I think are accurate) and the national self-indulgence on US media (which are clearly taking place) don’t suggest a major cognitive dissociation.

I’ll admit I haven’t yet seen a single thread on MHO about 9/11, which says something that might be kinda scary. Put that with your discussion of Afghanistan being “forgotten”, and there are hosts of questions which may be asked. Does the US wish to ignore/forget it’s failures while creating martyrdoms of certain assaults?

Cheers. And please stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1508
Joined: 2004
Afghanistan going down?
9/11/2021 9:36:15 PM
Hi Brian. For the last 3-4 days our media has been flooded with messages telling us to remember 9-11. To me 9-11 was a massive failure on the part of our government from top to bottom to have prevented what happened. It would seem nothing has been learned over the last twenty years, Afghanistan especially. Most Americans are concerned only about what's for supper and watching their favorite show on television. l have no allusions what's in store for this country. I think in twenty years from now people will look back like the Germans in 1945(those that survived) and say "what the hell have we done to ourselves?".

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
17thfabn
Ohio OH USA
Posts: 175
Joined: 2008
Afghanistan going down?
9/12/2021 6:47:40 PM
Quote:


as long as the west continues to blame the Taliban on Islam

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G


The taliban is true islam. They are what true islam looks like.
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Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy.
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2007
Afghanistan going down?
9/17/2021 3:41:54 PM
So.......now, the US military under Joe effin Biden admits that they killed 10 innocent civilians with a drone strike.....7 of whom were children!

I have never been so ashamed of the people of this country who gave us this weak, idiotic, woke incompetence!
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12348
Joined: 2009
Afghanistan going down?
9/17/2021 7:37:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:


as long as the west continues to blame the Taliban on Islam

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G


The taliban is true islam. They are what true islam looks like.


Muslims are not a monolithic bloc. They live in different countries all over the world. As with most faiths, there are those who practice a fundamentalist form of Islam and others who are not likely to be bound by requirements of the faith that they reject or find extreme.

When I was working I had colleagues who were Muslim and I taught many kids who were Muslim. Most were just regular folks trying to do their jobs or to study hard to gain acceptance into the university of their choice or the job training programme of their choice.

The Afghan interpreters and airmen and soldiers who assisted the US and allies during the war are also likely Muslims. Where do they fit in your description of what a real Muslim looks like.

So I don't understand what you meant 17thfabn. Perhaps you would explain your point of view.

Cheers,

George
17thfabn
Ohio OH USA
Posts: 175
Joined: 2008
Afghanistan going down?
9/17/2021 8:55:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:


as long as the west continues to blame the Taliban on Islam

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G


The taliban is true islam. They are what true islam looks like.


Muslims are not a monolithic bloc. They live in different countries all over the world. As with most faiths, there are those who practice a fundamentalist form of Islam and others who are not likely to be bound by requirements of the faith that they reject or find extreme.

When I was working I had colleagues who were Muslim and I taught many kids who were Muslim. Most were just regular folks trying to do their jobs or to study hard to gain acceptance into the university of their choice or the job training programme of their choice.

The Afghan interpreters and airmen and soldiers who assisted the US and allies during the war are also likely Muslims. Where do they fit in your description of what a real Muslim looks like.

So I don't understand what you meant 17thfabn. Perhaps you would explain your point of view.

Cheers,

George


I'm not talking about the muslim people. Some are great human beings, some are among the most evil. And every thing in between.

Saying the taliban isn't inspired by islam is like saying the inquisition wasn't inspired by the church in Rome. Same deal there are Christians of every stripe.

Look at the life of mohammed . It is an ugly evil story. Islam says he is the perfect man. You can see where the taliban and other such groups get their inspiration. They are truly following the teachings and example of mohammed. They are the "good" muslims in that they most closely follow the life and example of mohammed.


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Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12348
Joined: 2009
Afghanistan going down?
9/18/2021 7:54:16 AM
Hello 17thfabn,

So your concern is with extremists within the Islamic fold. That's fair. I presume that you are concerned with extremists among practitioners of Christianity and the Jewish faith. And concern for white supremacists and nationalists too.

But there are people who take a cursory glance at the Taliban and presume that that is the way of all people who practice Islam. And in their ignorance they allow themselves to become crazed and they commit unspeakable acts. There are people who see multiculturalism as a practice that will eliminate and destroy the primacy of the founding European cultures.

We have seen a rise here in Canada of anti-Muslim activity resulting in arson at mosques or, much worse, an ignorant SOB who saw a Muslim family out for a walk and decided to run them over with his truck, killing all four. Their crime? The woman wore hijab and that triggered his anger. These were good people, devout and law abiding and now dead.

Cheers,

George

morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2007
Afghanistan going down?
9/18/2021 5:25:52 PM
What`s curiously left off the list of Christians and Jews, white supremacists and nationalists...is the violent leftist extremists.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3062
Joined: 2010
Afghanistan going down?
10/7/2021 12:07:00 PM
Interesting, though yet unconfirmed, reports coming out of Afghanistan; Chinese soldiers have been observed at Bagram air base....

That did not take long.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 671
Joined: 2005
Afghanistan going down?
10/7/2021 8:02:48 PM
Chinese were ready and had civilian officials in country during the panic'd exodus...................
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1187
Joined: 2004
Afghanistan going down?
10/7/2021 8:47:30 PM
China and the Taliban have a shared enemy it seems. The West? That's what analysts haven't seemed to digest yet. The enemy of my enemy. I hope it's not Bin Laden x1000.
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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3062
Joined: 2010
Afghanistan going down?
10/8/2021 9:16:16 AM
Quote:
China and the Taliban have a shared enemy it seems. The West? That's what analysts haven't seemed to digest yet. The enemy of my enemy. I hope it's not Bin Laden x1000.


Perhaps the more immediate enemy for both is probably IS and other more extreme islamic organisations operating in parts of China.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
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