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 (1861-1865) Civil War Battles (Eastern Theater)
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scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
3/23/2022 5:40:06 PM
23.03.1862- 160 years ago was the First Battle of Kernstown considered to be the start of Jackson´s Valley Campaign. A Campaign still studied today in Military Studies.
I enjoyed this series of videos so will be posting them along the timeline.

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Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/11/2022 6:20:48 PM
8th May 1862 the Battle of Mcdowell.
I wanted to post this on the 8th May but had some technical difficulties but better late than never.

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Just a few points.

I never really realised the importance of this, what was by comparison, small battle.

After Kernstown, Johnson wanted to bring Jackson to defend Richmond but Jefferson Davis was persuaded by Lee to allow Jackson to go on the offensive in the Valley. From this point Jackson was reporting directly to Lee. After the debacle of Cheat Mountain, Lee had been sent to improve fortifications in Charleston. It was Davis who believed in him and called him to Richmond as military advisor. Nobody thought much of “Granny Lee” the “King of Spades” and wouldn´t really do so until after the Seven Days. Jackson too had tarnished his reputation during the Romney Campaign and his troops and Generals considered him a complete nutcase referring to him as “Crazy Jack” or “Old Tom Fool”. I don´t blame them. Definitely one historical person I would like to get in my therapy room. It was the beginning of a fruitful relationship.

Any comments ?

Trevor



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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5651
Joined: 2004
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/12/2022 3:09:21 AM
Hi Trevor,

This time round I’m definitely going to get involved with your Shenandoah thread.


Sorry I didn’t come to the party when you kicked off with Kernstown : I’ll revisit it, and then look at the links and you’re in serious danger of receiving comments from me !

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1503
Joined: 2004
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/12/2022 12:55:17 PM
Quote:
23.03.1862- 160 years ago was the First Battle of Kernstown considered to be the start of Jackson´s Valley Campaign. A Campaign still studied today in Military Studies.
I enjoyed this series of videos so will be posting them along the timeline.

[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Trevor


Glad you started this thread although I just picked up on it. Someday I would to like to trace Jacksons campaign trail(by automobile). Was Jacksons success do to his drive and tactics or because most Union commanders seemed timid and reluctant to meet Jackson head on.

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
mikecmaps
CAMARILLO CA USA
Posts: 159
Joined: 2020
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/12/2022 5:43:14 PM


05122022 mikecmaps

“Jackson too had tarnished his reputation during the Romney Campaign and his troops and Generals considered him a complete nutcase”

It is very strange to suggest that the Romney campaign “tarnished” Jackson’s reputation.

The Romney Campaign was in planning since late Nov. 61. It was approved by Johnston, Benjamin and Davis. General Lee seemed to favor a less ambitious plan. Loring was given discretion to join the campaign and agreed to participate. Jackson requested that his old stonewall brigade be sent to him as the main regular force. Most of his “army” were green West Virginia volunteers and militia. Ironically during this planning phase Davis wrote “the success of the army requires harmonious co-operation.” This in response to Johnston’s complaint against sending Jackson’s old brigade to him. In the proposal to Benjamin, Jackson stated the plan would be “an arduous undertaking” and require sacrifice of “much personal comfort.” But victory and greater security of the valley would be achieved.

The Shenandoah Valley was the “Garden of Virginia” and the “Breadbasket of the Confederacy.” The two critical points were Staunton in the upper (south) valley and Winchester in the lower valley (north) (lower valley downstream, upper valley upstream) Romney was important because it covered the B&O RR and was within 50 miles west of Winchester. Coordinated Union advance from Romney and Harper’s Ferry would force Jackson in Winchester back south. Characteristically Jackson was not idle. He sought to proactively protect the Valley by taking Bath and Romney and keeping unions forces separated. The campaign was successful. Jackson had seized his objective, Romney, blocking a union advance on the valley. The two week campaign had driven the union troops from three West Virginia counties and brought protection to Winchester. And relieved West Virginia residents suffering from occupation of union troops. Jackson destroyed 100 miles of main line and sidetracks of the B&O RR and gathered large quantity of stores. Total losses were less than 50 men. Jackson accomplished his objective in spite of bad weather and green troops. The campaign unravelled because of insubordinate Loring and undisciplined green troops. Loring applied to Benjamin and Davis intervened in the most destructive way and ordered Jackson’s troops back to Winchester. Davis never forgave Jackson for the embarrassing rebuke in his resignation. Davis and Benjamin lost face being compelled to pass over the resignation at the time that “stonewall” was the most popular confederate general. This was one of the best examples of Davis’ mean and destructive influence on strategy and command discipline. Loring would again absent himself at the critical moment in the Vicksburg campaign. Davis and Benjamin showed befuddlement and feebleness in leadership. What did they imagine Jackson meant when he advised the campaign would be arduous? Governor Letcher confronted both Davis and Benjamin in heated exchanges. Letcher heard a War department clerk say “Jackson is crazy!” Letcher shouted “Crazy! Crazy! It’s a damned pity that Jackson’s character or insanity does not attack some in this department!” Reminiscent of Lincoln wanting to send Grant’s brand whiskey to all of his generals. Five months later crazy Jackson independently led the Valley Campaign an acknowledged masterpiece of campaign strategy studied to this day. Pretty good reputation.

“Was Jacksons success do to his drive and tactics or because most Union commanders seemed timid and reluctant to meet Jackson head on.”
Circular reasoning; if win weak union commanders; if lose brilliant Union commanders. McClellan, Pope, Burnside, Hooker, Mead and even Grant, all west point trained officers, sure looked weak at times when against Lee-jackson, and with typically half the forces, face it Lee-jackson better.

yours, Mike
mikecmaps

Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5651
Joined: 2004
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/13/2022 2:47:58 AM
Having just watched the first Kernstown vignette that Trevor pitched to us, I have to say that my appetite to learn more has been whetted !

Beautiful scenery, dramatic marches and fierce little battles are compelling things to study. Add in the eccentric personality of Jackson - I was tempted to suggest that he was as mad as a box of biscuits, but now think better of it - and we have the recipe for a first rate series of MHO parties !

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/13/2022 5:57:00 AM
Quote:
It is very strange to suggest that the Romney campaign “tarnished” Jackson’s reputation.


This was meant among his troops, and the relatives they wrote to as well as the War Department. Not only was he a martinet, but extremely "eccentric". His lack of social skills and empathy added to his religious fanaticism, had his troops believing that he was a complete nutcase. Perhaps theses days one would say "image" rather than reputation. This atitude would continue basically until after Front Royal. After that, they would follow him anywhere.

Trevor

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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5651
Joined: 2004
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/14/2022 5:43:43 AM
Very interesting feature on the Battle of McDowell, Trevor.

A clear example of how possession of high ground does not necessarily confer the advantage.

The poor rebels of the 12th Georgia were on top of a steep hill, but they were rendered conspicuous as silhouettes by the sun setting behind them. They were firing down at a steep angle, and overshooting. They were enveloped by yankees who enjoyed being in the shadows and could deliver converging fire. Moreover, the rebels had antiquated smoothbores, while their enemy possessed rifled muskets. To make the affair more lopsided still, the Georgians were keen to uphold the honour of their state, being aware that the other regiments were Virginians, and refused to relinquish their position, despite this being a fatal predicament. The resulting casualty exchange went badly against the defenders. Not only were more of them hit : those who were suffered a much higher fatality rate than the yankees, whose casualties contained a smaller proportion of killed and a greater incidence of slight wounds.

At Gettysburg, the Union defenders in the Round Tops sector were to suffer from a similar disadvantage in terms of being more conspicuous against the setting sun, and the rebels exacted a deadly forfeit there, too.

Again, in the Shenandoah itself, two years after McDowell, the Battle of New Market resulted in the attacking rebels enjoying advantages that allowed them to deliver a more fatal fire than the yankees, who suffered a disproportionate number of killed, although the numbers who were wounded were roughly even for the two sides.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/14/2022 6:42:51 AM
Phil,

One of the reasons the French introduced pale blue uniforms in WW1.

And don´t forget Missionary Ridge.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5651
Joined: 2004
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/14/2022 10:02:10 AM
Quote:
Phil,

One of the reasons the French introduced pale blue uniforms in WW1.

And don´t forget Missionary Ridge.

Trevor



Yes, good points, Trevor.

Missionary Ridge demonstrates the folly of deploying on the topographical crest, rather than the military crest.

There’s something phenomenal in the willingness of those confederates to shed their blood in order to uphold their standards of honour.

I’ve always been aghast at the casualties they suffered in the Seven Day’s fighting : although on a small scale , this McDowell battle is portentous of what was to happen in the weeks ahead.

It would be a mistake to exclude the northern troops from this phenomenon: they too displayed astonishing willingness to bleed and die when called upon, but the southern appetite for combat, combined with the leadership of Jackson, concocted a special recklessness that came to a zenith around Richmond a few weeks later.

Jackson’s brother in law summed it up when he wrote “ we were very lavish of blood in those days.”

Editing: The big difference between McDowell and Missionary Ridge is that , notwithstanding the common faulty deployment, the rebels at McDowell endured the bloodshed that holding their position entailed, while their counterparts at Missionary Ridge broke and ran without suffering heavily in killed and wounded. That statement of DH Hill’s that I cited above is pertinent here : he opined that Chickamauga had been so bloody that southern soldiers never exhibited the same fighting dash again.


You must be pleased with last night’s penalty shootout, Trevor : what are the chances of a scouse quadruple ?


Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/15/2022 8:57:59 AM
Quote:

You must be pleased with last night’s penalty shootout, Trevor : what are the chances of a scouse quadruple ?

Regards, Phil


Not very good. I can´t see Man City dropping any points. But that is the fascination with football, it is full of surprises and it´s not over until the ref blows the whistle.

Edit. Indeed, Man City drop 2 points at West Ham. And City looked very nervous.
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3024
Joined: 2010
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
5/23/2022 4:36:59 PM
23rd May 1862 Battle of Front Royal

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Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
Polo Grounds NY USA
Posts: 193
Joined: 2021
Jackson´s Valley Campaign
8/6/2022 1:30:05 PM
The best book on the 1862 Valley Campaign, Robert Tanner's Stonewall in the Valley starts out with the winter campaign, making the Battle of Bath the first battle .

By not starting with this campaign, you miss many of the places Tanner mentions, plus the 1st Confederate monument erected, plus the site of the death of Ashby's brother. You travel over about 80% of the existing roads to get to Unger's store.

When I lead tours of the Valley Campaign, I spend a day with the Winter Campaign.

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