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 (1861-1865) Civil War Battles (Eastern Theater)
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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1326
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/4/2021 7:55:21 AM
From the Raleigh Register. Raleigh NC. October 4, 1862.



From the Reading Times. Reading PA These adds appear on the same page as casualty reports.

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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5146
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/4/2021 10:06:38 AM
Some very interesting and revealing stuff here, Larry !

I hope that I’m interpreting things correctly, because the implications are significant.

The official return of casualties for the ANV in the Second Mannassas fighting indicate an astonishingly low number of prisoners , with barely one hundred posted as missing in action from a total casualty list approaching ten thousand. This is dependent on the casualty list in the newspaper being attributable only to that fighting : the reference to the fighting in front of Washington surely endorses that ?

The large number of wounded prisoners is significant : apparently, the rebels were clearly segregating their returns allowing for demarcation between wounded and unwounded prisoners, implying that their return of c. 7,500 wounded includes those who were captured. That in itself suggests advanced liaison between the contending armies. It also might be a feature of Lee’s victory : the triumphant side being better able to ascertain the fate of its wounded and dying than the vanquished. We’ve already seen how Lee’s retirement from Sharpsburg entailed uncertainty and lack of accounting for the stricken men left on the battlefield. Very different from the victory less than three weeks earlier.

Another striking thing in this article is the gracious acknowledgement of good treatment from the Federals. IIRC this had been mentioned in another of your articles, with a bemused yankee surgeon remarking that, after Antietam, the Union soldiers seemed determined to take care of wounded enemies, even to the point of ignoring their own brothers in arms !

Perhaps memory fails me here, but I’m convinced that I read it, and it certainly makes one wonder what made these soldiers tick : after such a stupefying bloodbath, there was, it seems, a palpable sense of humanity on display, with a conscious wish to indulge the suffering foe.

Aren’t people strange ?

Editing : Considering that the total number of prisoners ( unwounded ) lost by the rebels was, by official return , barely one hundred, the number named in that list of unwounded sent to Newbern is remarkably large, bearing in mind that these are for NC units only. Does this suggest that there had been significant under reporting of the casualties ?

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5146
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/4/2021 11:28:47 AM
Larry,

Now, after seeing the OOB for the confederates at 2nd Mannassas, I see that the regiments cited in the article - 8th, 10th, 17th and 55th N.C. - were not present !

What a huge mistake I've made !

I was assuming that these were articles relating to the fighting near Washington in early September 1862, and that, consequently, the men were casualties of the fighting between 27 August and 2 September.


The reference to Newbern should have opened my eyes : these were battles in a different theatre of operations, from earlier in the war.

Oh, dear.....no wonder I was struggling to make sense of it all.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Gregory C. White
Canton GA USA
Posts: 380
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/4/2021 12:56:38 PM
Quote:
Larry,

Now, after seeing the OOB for the confederates at 2nd Mannassas, I see that the regiments cited in the article - 8th, 10th, 17th and 55th N.C. - were not present !

What a huge mistake I've made !

I was assuming that these were articles relating to the fighting near Washington in early September 1862, and that, consequently, the men were casualties of the fighting between 27 August and 2 September.


The reference to Newbern should have opened my eyes : these were battles in a different theatre of operations, from earlier in the war.

Oh, dear.....no wonder I was struggling to make sense of it all.

Regards, Phil


Phil,

I'm doing a thorough study of Lawton's Georgia brigade right now, going through September-October 1862
Georgia newspapers. I'm having to be careful when examining each casualty list I encounter, trying to be
careful to distinguish the Manassas casualties from those at Sharpsburg. The detailed Sharpsburg casualties
didn't seem to reach Georgia until at least the first week of October, and Manassas casualties were still being
received in October.

Best Regards,

Greg

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“Any society which suppresses the heritage of its conquered minorities, prevent their history, and denies them their symbols, has sown the seeds of its destruction.” Sir William Wallace, 1280 A.D.
Gregory C. White
Canton GA USA
Posts: 380
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/4/2021 1:01:52 PM
Looking at the casualty lists Larry provided, I see one wounding in particular
I doubt I've ever seen in 35 years of perusing published casualty lists.

Look at John Modlin of the 17th NC, Company C:

"bruised by a falling chimney" !


Greg
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“Any society which suppresses the heritage of its conquered minorities, prevent their history, and denies them their symbols, has sown the seeds of its destruction.” Sir William Wallace, 1280 A.D.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5146
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/5/2021 6:06:46 AM
Greg,

A quick google presents me with the casualty list of Lawton’s Brigade at Antietam, and it’s clear that it took a beating. The 13th Georgia took the most fatal punishment, losing 216 men, of whom 48 were killed. Any idea as to why the regiment lost such a large number of killed ? All the other regiments in the brigade lost a combined total of 58 killed from their 349 casualties.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Gregory C. White
Canton GA USA
Posts: 380
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/5/2021 12:16:39 PM
Quote:
Greg,

A quick google presents me with the casualty list of Lawton’s Brigade at Antietam, and it’s clear that it took a beating. The 13th Georgia took the most fatal punishment, losing 216 men, of whom 48 were killed. Any idea as to why the regiment lost such a large number of killed ? All the other regiments in the brigade lost a combined total of 58 killed from their 349 casualties.

Regards, Phil


Phil,

I have pondered the same question numerous times, wondering why a particular regiment
in a brigade bears the brunt of the violence and resulting casualties.

You have to assume the regimental alignment had much to do with it.

I'm hoping Scott Hartwig's concluding volume on Antietam will answer such questions once
it reaches publication.

Best Regards,

Greg

----------------------------------
“Any society which suppresses the heritage of its conquered minorities, prevent their history, and denies them their symbols, has sown the seeds of its destruction.” Sir William Wallace, 1280 A.D.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 5146
Joined: 2004
October 4, 1862
10/5/2021 3:05:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Greg,

A quick google presents me with the casualty list of Lawton’s Brigade at Antietam, and it’s clear that it took a beating. The 13th Georgia took the most fatal punishment, losing 216 men, of whom 48 were killed. Any idea as to why the regiment lost such a large number of killed ? All the other regiments in the brigade lost a combined total of 58 killed from their 349 casualties.

Regards, Phil


Phil,

I have pondered the same question numerous times, wondering why a particular regiment
in a brigade bears the brunt of the violence and resulting casualties.

You have to assume the regimental alignment had much to do with it.

I'm hoping Scott Hartwig's concluding volume on Antietam will answer such questions once
it reaches publication.

Best Regards,

Greg



Hi Greg,

More than just the number of casualties : why were so many of the hits fatal in one unit, while another might suffer just as many wounds, but nothing like the number of killed ?

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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