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(1939-1945) WWII Battles
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 8:02:18 AM

This was a terrific struggle in the mountains for the US 1st division. Troina sits on one of the highest points of land in Sicily.

It is surrounded by many other mountains and since the Germans and Italians got there first, they were able to prepare and to stymie the attempts by the US to dislodge them and force a retreat.

You can see the position of Troina on this map. Find Mt. Etna near the east coast and then go almost due west to the German Etna line. As I understand it, Troina anchored the Etna Line which really wasn't a line so much as a series of well defended positions often on higher ground, forcing US, British and Commonwealth troops to kick the Germans and Italians out of those positions.

Wide map:

[Read More]

Troina was particularly difficult because of the geography and the fact that the Germans could see the approach attempts made by US troops who had a battalion of Goumiers from Morocco attached.

The Germans and Italians were desperate to hold this position. They had done well to hold up the British 8th Army on the Catania Plain by diverting assets there and sending more troops from the Italian mainland. That was encouraging for the Germans and they made the US soldiers pay before deciding to abandon Troina and to retreat toward Messina.

But the fight was not to gain the streets of the town of Troina. It was to get to the town and the mountainous terrain proved to be a formidable foe.

As well, over the period of the battle, the Germans and Italians use artillery and mortar fire to great effect to break up US attacks. I believe that the Germans and Italians counter attacked over 20 times, every time it appeared that the US was going to seize one of the commanding mountain positions that looked down on their approaches. The Italians managed to capture 40 US soldiers at one point in the battle.

German engineers had a wonderful time in creating obstacles to attack including mining creek beds and the deep gulches that were everywhere, so that US soldiers could not use them to approach either Troina or the mountain positions surrounding. The geography funnelled the US troops into a killing zone and the week long battle was a struggle.

Apparently, this struggle was not anticipated by the Americans who anticipated an easier time.

You have to be impressed with the resolve of the US troops to dislodge the Germans and the resolve of the Germans to prevent that.

German General Hube actually considered staying in Troina but when the Americans captured a key surrounding mountain position, they had the potential to cut off the only route of retreat available to the Germans.

As well, he was keeping an eye on the Canadians and British who were advancing toward the Troina River valley. American forces on the extreme right of their battle group had already made contact with the Canadians in Agira who were coming into position to cut off the escape route if they turned north.

The Canadian 1st Div and the British 78th were advancing on Regalbuto and Centuripe by Aug. 1. Regalbuto fell on the 2nd.

Still the stubborn Germans held despite the battering that they were taking.

With tremendous effort, the US forces began to seize key surrounding mountain positions and were closing the noose. Once the Americans took Monte Basilio, they could control Hwy. 120, just east of the town.

The Germans at Troina knew that the British 30th Corps were now moving on the German forces defending closer to Mt. Etna in Catania.

And so the Germans left beginning on Aug. 5. They left a rear guard to delay the Americans and retreated along Hwy. 120.

The US forces had battered the German 15th Panzer Grenadiers as well. They had taken 1600 casualties.

The details of the battle or rather battles of the mountains protecting Troina may be found here. It was a complex battle or rather multiple battles within the main battle.

[Read More]

Troina itself was destroyed by artillery and attacks from the air by US planes.

Looking west from the town. You can see how difficult this battle ground was for the Americans. No place to hide.

Troina in 1921





US 16th infantry making its way toward Troina



Entering the battered Troina after the Germans had mostly left. The 16th were met with some rifle fire by stragglers and they took care of them quite quickly.







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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 8:14:15 AM

What no mention of "mouse-holing" in and around Troina? Or how about the change of command in the "Big Red One" during the battle?
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 514

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 9:59:12 AM

Quote:
What no mention of "mouse-holing" in and around Troina? Or how about the change of command in the "Big Red One" during the battle?


John, Terry Allen was relieved on 7 August, the day after the end of the battle.
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GaryNJ
Cumberland
NJ USA
Posts: 40

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 10:41:10 AM

John,

It does state at the end of the article George has a link to that:

Quote:
General Allen also relinquished command of the 1st Division. He and the assistant division commander, General Roosevelt, turned the division over to Maj. Gen. Clarence R. Huebner and Col. Willard G. Wyman. General Allen would return to the United States to take command of another division, the 104th Infantry Division, which he would lead with distinction in northwest Europe; General Roosevelt, after serving as Fifth Army liaison officer to the commander of the French Expeditionary Forces in Italy, would earn a Medal of Honor during the Normandy invasion of 1944 as assistant division commander of the 4th Infantry Division.54

The end of the battle for Troina may well have seemed to the 1st Division commander and his assistant like a most unsatisfactory time to turn over the command of "The Big Red One" to General Huebner. For it had taken the 1st Division, reinforced with an additional regiment, a solid week to reduce defenses that had originally seemed easy enough to crack with a single regiment. In the process, the division was depleted in strength, reduced to weariness. Perhaps some of this depletion, some of this weariness, could have been avoided had the intelligence estimates of the last few days in July not been so inaccurate. Perhaps more could have been avoided had General Allen, after the failure of the 39th Infantry to take Troina on 1 August, committed more of the division's strength, instead of waiting for two more days to do so. Evaluation of the division's performance in the fighting at Troina might also involve an answer to the question: did the expected relief by Eddy's incoming 9th Division contribute to the initial optimism and a possible desire to spare the troops?


Gary
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 11:52:13 AM

Deleted. Price isn't worth the time.

GaryNJ, thanks for your response.
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 12:01:42 PM

How much of the combat actually took place within Troina? It was my understanding that the fight was to move the Germans and Italians from prepared positions on a number of high points all around the town and to deal with the mining operations and bridge destruction on the approaches to the town.

Also, did the Germans choose to blow up the town to create mounds of rubble and killing zones or was all the damage due to US artillery and aircraft?

George
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 7:30:41 PM

Rich,

There is a lot more going on with that relief made very murky by the post war publications of Bradley and most historians taking their clue from them. It is my understanding that Allen and the division were informed of the relief in the middle of the battle and that there were conflicting orders from army and corps on the timing of the relief. All of this made more murky and skewed by the post war writing of Bradley.

from the Command and General Staff College.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a505159.pdf
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/2/2019 8:02:27 PM

Gary,

But the battle of Troina had nothing to do with the relief of Allen and TR Jr as it had been first conceived on the Tine River line in Tunis and decided on before the invasion of Sicily. Sometimes you have to go deeper than a overview that leans on a single source way too much.

Given that the 104th fought alongside the Canadians and the high praise heaped on it and Allen by Canadian officers I'm a little surprised.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 514

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/3/2019 6:33:11 PM

Quote:
Rich,

There is a lot more going on with that relief made very murky by the post war publications of Bradley and most historians taking their clue from them. It is my understanding that Allen and the division were informed of the relief in the middle of the battle and that there were conflicting orders from army and corps on the timing of the relief. All of this made more murky and skewed by the post war writing of Bradley.


Oh, I understand that and know Major Johnson's work. I was just saying that the date of Allen's relief was after Troina, nothing more. Yes, Bradley used it as another example of what a wonderful general Omar was in his postwar memoirs, but like a lot of what Bradley wrote it was fiction. No, Troina was not the reason for his relief. He was relieved, without prejudice, by Eisenhower with Patton's concurrence, because Allen was exhausted. It was always planned that he would return as a division commander or even corps commander later after a stint of rest training up new divisions in CONUS. Same for Ward and a number of other generals. The notion that Marshall or Eisenhower relieved generals willy-nilly is simply incorrect. The best book-length treatment of the subject is Stephen Taafe's Marshall and His Generals.
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/4/2019 8:43:24 AM

Rich,

Sloppy wording on my part in the initial post its just that this is a pet peeve with me especially if you are going to link to a source that has the fiction listed as fact. It does a great disservice to both Allen and TR Jr.

I also never meant to imply that Marshall or Ike relieved generals "willy-nilly" but have read that Bradley relieved the most generals and col by far during the war. I believe that it was on the 104th Division Association site. If true now I understand a couple of scenes from the movie "Patton" better.

Do you think it was Bradley that kept Allen from getting a Corps? Apparently Bedell Smith also had a bad opinion of him.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/4/2019 9:02:52 AM

It doesn't matter how much of the combat actually took place in Troina. The map in your link shown four towns Troina included in the "battle area" with Troina being the closest to the German "main line of resistance." All three of the other towns had to be taken and secured before an advance against the "main line of resistance" can take place because they are choke points on the major and minor roads leading to it. At the very least the Germans are going to put rear guards in them to delay the advance giving themselves more time to prepare the MLR, dig in, plant mine and site arty, while bringing up men, equipment and supplies. Also Troina proper isn't the only grouping of buildings on the MLR.

Take a look in the last picture in your original post identified as member of the 16th Inf Reg clearing Troina of stragglers. Aren't there standing building in that picture? Also another picture you posted shows US Inf approaching Troina from the west I believe, it looks to me that was taken from a roof or upstairs window. Don't those pictures answer your question?
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/4/2019 12:28:42 PM

Actually, it does matter because when you chose to derail the Ortona thread, you tried to draw some sort of parallel between the two battles. The struggles were somewhat different.

And yes, I already knew that there was very little combat within Troina and that the US air force and artillery had pounded it. What I did not know was whether the Germans had engaged in demolitions as they had in Ortona and which made Ortona a very difficult objective to secure.

Troina was a key German point on the Etna Line. However, my understanding is that the Germans did not see the line as a true defensive line but a series of German and Italian strongpoints that would present a challenge to anyone wishing to advance. But Troina was definitely in the way and the American advance was covered by artillery on a number of outpost positions. Really tough to make headway.

BTW, I realize that you cared little about the Ortona battle but you should know that it has iconic status in Canadian military history. It is important to those of us who study these events. It is important to Canadians and part of our story. It is another one of those battles whose losses are difficult to justify and raises questions about the conduct of the battle.

Who could forget that sycophantic post of yours addressed to Rich, in the middle of the Ortona thread with nose firmly inserted:

Quote:
Hey Rich, did you see my post on Troina?
. I think that that was it.

I think Rich responded with something like, "yes I did". Perhaps he didn't know where you were headed. I certainly didn't.

What was the purpose of that John? Diversion? Just part of being a generally sour man? Perhaps you, in that less than subtle way, wanted to say that Ortona was nothing and that Troina was a real battle. Who knows? You often don't explain your thoughts completely.

That post had nothing to do with the Ortona thread but there is perversity in most of what you do on this forum. It's always about trying to diminish the other person's efforts by playing "Gotcha".

Look at your first response to my initial post. What is clear to anyone who deals with you Price, is that you never initiate much of anything here but you are quick to jump on people and provide some arcane fact that is unenlightening to indicate that they missed something or were in error. Polite discussion seems to be the last thing on your mind unless of course, you are dealing with people whose academic qualifications intimidate and then you become deferential.

You either lack the courage or the ability to create a meaningful post and so you spend your time in looking for places to jump in to criticize, looking for that, "aha, gotcha moment".

And so I spent a good deal of time in the preparation of an introductory post about an interesting battle in Sicily. That's something that you don't do often, John

The Italian campaign interests me because my father fought there and so did his brother, who is buried just north of Rimini. Truthfully, I thought that it would bring in more responses to a moribund section of the forum.

And you? Another one of your cowardly posts.

Quote:
What no mention of "mouse-holing" in and around Troina? Or how about the change of command in the "Big Red One" during the battle?


So tell me John? How did that post further the discussion of the Troina battle? What did we learn about the significance of the battle and how it influenced the overall campaign in Sicily?
What was your purpose in posting it? Clearly, it was another chance for you to take a shot at me.
Just that bilious nature coming to the fore once again.

And now, I'm taking a shot at you even though I told myself that I would not. I am tired of you making snide remarks when I post something as uncontentious as this "Troina" post. It needs to stop.

Was it just another opportunity to disparage me or my efforts? Again it's difficult to do that with you because you rarely present anything. Come from behind John.

Was the change of command a critical point that I should have placed somewhere in the introductory post? I don't think so. It was an arcane bit of information that you tossed in and essentially killed the thread. And it could have been presented in a much different, more polite and less challenging manner. But that isn't your MO.

Look, we don't like each other but if you had nothing to say about Troina, then why didn't you just shut up?

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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/4/2019 2:41:57 PM

I didn't try to derail the Ortona thread I tried to, as Rich did also, point out that the Canadians didn't invent "mouse-holing" on the fly as a solution to the type of combat faced in Ortona and then teach in to all the other Allied formations as you were claiming.

My point was that it doesn't matter the amount of combat in Troina proper because mouse-holing only needs a group of buildings and a squad or even sniper teams to carry out and between the 3 other towns and various villa's and farms in the battle area there was more than enough opportunity.

Plus I just pointed out the pictures you previously posted answered the question you were asking about German demolition. The pictures are of the 16th Inf Reg entering the town and that is the end of the battle and there are a lot of standing buldings shown in the pictures. And no the second to last pictures you posted was not damage from demolitions from the battle, grass and weeds don't grow that quickly.


Have I call you names in this thread? Have I said you weren't worth my time? Have I told you to shut up? No I've challenged your opinion and source for the subject because I don't agree with either. Why do you react like this every time your opinion is challenged? I think you better see a professional and seek help soon.


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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/4/2019 3:33:32 PM

Check your first post on the thread and tell me whether it was a reasonable response, a response that wouldn't piss off the developer of the thread.

Quote:
What no mention of "mouse-holing" in and around Troina? Or how about the change of command in the "Big Red One" during the battle?


Don't display any more cowardice. Own what you said and it was clearly just a cheap sarcastic shot.

I spent a good deal of time trying to introduce that new thread and it pisses me off that I have to read BS of that nature from someone like you who so very rarely takes the time to create a meaningful post that could stimulate discussion.


And get it right, Price. I did not say that the Canadians taught the technique of mouse holing to everyone. I said that other armies examined what had happened in Ortona and used that experience to inform their own preparation for urban combat. That's what armed forces do and Ortona had some lessons to be learned.

Quote:
During the battle for Ortona, the Canadians innovated, improvised, and successfully exploited the effects of their personal weapons and supporting arms under largely unforeseen circumstances. Following a week of fighting in Ortona, the Canadian division became Eighth Army’s acknowledged street-fighting experts. In serving notice upon the Allies to expect further such battles, Ortona also carried implications. In Britain, armies composed mostly of untried formations waited to open the main ‘second front’ in northwest Europe, where they could expect an equally stubborn and desperate German defence. Ortona therefore merited close study, and received it from training staffs throughout the Allied armies.
. Lt. Col. Nicholson, The Canadians in Italy.

Why should that be so contentious is beyond me unless you have another agenda, as I suspect that you do.

If memory serves, didn't I allude to "mouseholing" in Mexico in 1846?

Did the Canadians invent it then? In a sense, yes but for themselves. The technique seems rather common sense but if you had not been trained then you have to make up something on the fly. From what I have read, that is what the Canadian engineers had to do. CDN officers said that if anyone had received training in the technique, it had long been forgotten.

The Canadians employed the PIAT to blow holes between floors and charges. That had not been taught to them. Most of what I have read indicates that they were inventing on the fly because they had no other option but to be creative. Some officers claim to have received some training on the matter but that it, "had long since been forgotten". I cannot remember which officer said that.

It doesn't matter because you seized upon that one issue and attempted to discredit me and that ruined the thread. It is my belief that you could not stand to read a thread that was essentially about a Canadian operation. There was one hell of a lot more about that battle that could have been discussed and a lot of good reason to be impressed with the resolve of the Germans and the Canadians who defeated them. But all of that went by the wayside because you were determined to make mouse holing the hill to die on.

Your first comment on this "Troina" thread indicates the same level of malign intent.

You need to put your bitterness aside and grow up.


While I am at it, Rich called me on my casualty figures because I had said that 25% of all Canadian losses in Italy were during the Ortona fighting. He was right to call me on it but I invite you to read the very last sentence on this report on Ortona from Veterans' Affairs Canada. It seems very inaccurate unless the reference was to the whole month of December from the Moro River on.

[Read More]. I could not find the reference when I made the statement during the Ortona thread.



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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 7:43:11 AM

It seems that Troina did indeed take a dreadful pounding.

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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 8:08:55 AM

Canadian casualties in Italy WWII

"Total Canadian casualties in Italy were 408 officers and 4,991 non-commissioned men killed. A further 1,218 officers and 18,268 men were wounded and 62 officers and 942 men were captured. Another 365 died of other causes. Of the 92,757 Canadians who served in Italy, 26,254 became casualties there."

Sources,
Mark Zuehlke, Operation Husky: The Canadian Invasion of Sicily, July 10-August 7, 1943 (2007) and The Gothic Line: Canada's Month of Hell in World War II Italy (2003) and The Liri Valley, Canada's World War II Breakthrough to Rome (2001) and Ortona: Canada's Epic World War II Battle (1999). Dan Dancocks, The D-Day Dodgers: The Canadians in Italy, 1943-1945 (1992).

The problem is that anybody who questions anything you post pisses you off and in your opinion has derailed your thread. Well guess what your choice of a overview that leans way too heavily on II Corps War Diary basically written by Bradley pissed me off and misses so much of the story. wile being a great disservice to Allen, TR Jr and the men of the Big Red One.

P. S. So in what universe are you going to find the math to make you "one-quarter" claim work or are you going to come back and claim that isn't what you said?
Oh and I found the casualty figures in 5 freakin minutes.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 8:31:40 AM

Then participate in the thread instead of being a petty fool as you are wont to do.

Again, look at your first post to my introductory thread John.

My post was rather innocuous and designed to gin up some interest. But you chose to be an ass.

I offered no opinion on Troina, did I? Nothing about the conduct of the battle, nothing about mistakes made, nothing about successful attacks. So I actually didn't miss anything because there was little of detail in the post. However, I submit that the comments that I did make were essentially accurate.

You responded with a cheap dig about a long dead thread on Ortona and then some stupid comment about the leadership of the 1st, couched in terminology designed to indicate that I had missed something critical.

This thread had nothing to do with Ortona. Grow up. Anyone reading your first post will wonder just what the hell you were on about because it had nothing to do with a discussion of the battle.

However, I will say that your comments on the battle of Ortona indicate that you really haven't studied it at all Price. Your comments were personal, directed at me and focused primarily on a concept, mouse holing.

And again, this thread was about a US battle at Troina.

So why the comment about Ortona? Any answers? I am calling you out on a deliberate attempt to discredit me even before there was any meat on the bones of a new thread.


It was petty and it was bilious and it was childish but certainly not a new behaviour for you.

So far you haven't contributed anything except some discussion about the move of the commander of 1st div to take over the training of the 104th.

And what do you do today and after another post of mine specific to Troina?

You toss Mark Zuelke's casualty numbers on Ortona. Well, I have his book and others. The statement that I used was from Veterans' Affairs Canada. I am still trying to determine whether VA was speaking about "bloody December" and the casualties taken from the crossing of the Moro River to "the Gully" and then finally to Ortona. There were apparently about 1300 KIA in that month. Zuelke's numbers indicate 5399 total deaths in the Italian campaign. Do the math.
My memory fades but I do not think that I quoted exact casualty figures and only presented the VA statement that 25% of CDN casualties in Italy took place at "Ortona".

EDIT: If you're really interested in CDN casualty statistics, then look up the official history by Nicholson, The Canadians in Italy 1943-1945 and go to page 681. That's where Zuelke got his numbers and likely where VA got its reference to a 25% casualty rate. You can find the book at Hyperwar John,
What are the odds that you are going to do that?




If the statement was inaccurate so be it but, and here is the perversity in your approach. You grab something like that or piggy back on another person's objection and you run with it. Why? Personal animus. Plain and simple. You wanted the Ortona thread to go south because it was a Canadian event.

You had an opportunity to engage in polite discussion about a US battle that was important to the success of the Sicilian campaign but you chose to be an ass, again. Looking for your next, "gotcha moment" aren't you Price?

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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 1007

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 9:11:20 AM

If the source your giving is at best greatly slanted and at worst wrong on many things how are you accurate? At best your as slanted as the source and at worst your as wrong as the source. I will give you this you do have the basic parameters right. The how and the who is responsible for what I don't think so.

If the beloved Division and Assistant Divisions Commanders are being relieved the moral of the men is going to suffer and moral is a important factor in performance.

Ya know forget it you aren't with my time or energy!
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 10238

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 9:28:14 AM

Ditto and mostly because your time and energy is rarely dedicated to a collegial discussion.


BTW, your last post is indecipherable because you haven't connected it to previous posts or to the specific comments to which you are responding.

Same with the comment on Canadian officers offering praise to the US 104th in the middle of a Troina thread. What the hell did that have to do with anything?

I mean, I may have some understanding because I know that the 104th was attached to the CDN army for a portion of the Scheldt campaign in Holland and Belgium. You said that you were surprised at something. Who knows why? You didn't tell us.
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 514

Troina, Sicily. July 31-Aug 6 1943
Posted on: 8/5/2019 11:35:55 AM

Quote:
While I am at it, Rich called me on my casualty figures because I had said that 25% of all Canadian losses in Italy were during the Ortona fighting. He was right to call me on it but I invite you to read the very last sentence on this report on Ortona from Veterans' Affairs Canada. It seems very inaccurate unless the reference was to the whole month of December from the Moro River on.

[Read More]. I could not find the reference when I made the statement during the Ortona thread.


I suspect that is exactly what happened...it was sloppy writing and/or thinking by the author of the article. Losses at Ortona were very likely at least one-quarter of all Canadian losses during the campaign in Italy to that point, but not for all Canadian losses in the Italian Campaign.
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